A Q&A about 'Saved for the Nation - The Story of the FA Cup'

The exhibition runs from Saturday 14th March to Saturday 23rd May 2009 at Bolton Museum.

Collections Rationalisation Officer Ben Whittaker talks about the background to the FA Cup exhibition:

How did the museum come up with the idea of putting on the FA Cup exhibition?
One football fan, and many of the staff at the museum, became very excited about the prospect of a football related exhibition; and because of Bolton’s strong connection to the FA cup, it seemed quite fitting that we’d have the exhibition here.

What makes the FA Cup different from other cup competitions in football?
The FA Cup is the oldest football cup competition in the world, having started in 1872. One of the reasons that makes it so special is its long history. There are many iconic games that have taken place over the years, and the prestige of the competition has grown and grown. Also, its one of the few occasions where the bigger clubs can play against the smaller clubs in the lower divisions. On the interactive panels and TV screens in the exhibition, we show some of the goals scored from the smaller teams who played against the bigger teams.

Have there been any football related exhibitions here before?
There have been exhibitions about Bolton Wanderers but not specifically on the FA cup. There was an exhibition about the closure of Burnden Park in 1997, and an exhibition called ‘Football Fever’ about Bolton Wanderers specifically, but this is the first exhibition we’ve had where the connection between Bolton Wanderers and the FA cup has been emphasised.

Why did you want to specifically work on the exhibition?
I’m a big football fan myself and as soon as I heard that the exhibition was coming from the football museum I wanted to get involved. I know that from working with the collections we’ve got good objects relating to Bolton Wanderers, and it’s a great opportunity to get these objects out on display, to be around iconic objects such as old shirts and cups, and to actually handle them too.

Which objects in the exhibition are on loan from the football museum, and which ones are from the collection here at Bolton?
Around three quarters of the objects in the exhibition are from the National Football Museum in Preston, including the cup, and some are from their Bolton Wanderers collection. In the Bolton section, we have around 25 to 30 objects on display that are from our collection; with just one or two objects picked out from the Football Museum’s collections; such as the players autographs and tickets to the games. We also have a replica of the FA Cup on display which has been borrowed from Bolton Town Hall.

Has anyone donated anything of their own?
Yes, in the 1920s section there are some objects that relate to someone called Harry Nuttle who was a Bolton Wanderers player. It was a friend of his family that donated these items. Some items have been donated and some have been bought at auction. When Burnden park stadium closed, the club auctioned everything off, including some of the turnstiles and the seats, and that’s how we’ve acquired the ones in the exhibition.

Bolton Museum went along to the auction and bought these items, as did members of the public. There must be people living in Bolton now who’ve got seats and various pieces of Burnden park stadium in their back gardens, even the floodlights!

Is there anything in particular that people from Bolton would enjoy about this exhibition?
Yes definitely. We have two shirts that were worn in the 1953 cup final between Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn, and one of them was worn by Stanley Matthews.

We also have a shirt that was worn in the 1923 cup final against West Ham, and is made of wool. As you can imagine it was difficult to play in wool particularly when it rained, as the wool would soak up the water and it would become very heavy. Most of the other Bolton related material is in our Bolton section.

Bolton reached the FA cup final three times, and won it three times. We have film footage of the 1923 cup final, which is really interesting to watch. It goes well with our listening posts where you can hear a Boltonian talking about what it was like to be there. The photographs show the players that were in the cup finals, and there are items such as an international cap that a Bolton player was awarded for his first England game, which is one of my favourite items.

We were really lucky to get a shirt that was worn during the 1923 cup final, and could possibly be the only shirt that survives from that final by either team. It’s on loan from a private collector, who isn’t a Bolton supporter, but passionate about the FA Cup. Unfortunately, we can’t keep it and have to give it him back after the exhibition finishes.

What kind of celebrations went on in Bolton during the cup finals, was there a good sense of community spirit?
Yes there was. The Bolton Evening News reported that around 5,000 to 10,000 people went down to London to see the game in 1923. Most people travelled by train from Trinity station, now Bolton station, and there were a few fans wealthy enough to travel by plane. Some Boltonians even managed to walk there. The Bolton Evening News had written a piece about a local newspaper seller who had walked all the way to Wembley.

They had last heard from him the day before the final, where he got as far as St Albans, so whether he made it or not I’m not sure, I would hope so though. Reading the Bolton Evening News on the Monday after the final, it summarises what it was like being in Bolton on the day of the game. Thousands of people had gathered at Bradshaw gate in the town centre; and people were trying to find out what the score was. Luckily, the press were there to tell everyone what was going on. When Bolton won, people were going mad and just dancing on the streets.

The paper also mentioned that in the market hall, now known as Market Place, stall holders were banging all their items on the stalls in unison, celebrating Bolton’s victory. The Bolton Evening News described it as ‘a weird experience at Market Hall’. There was also a match taking place at Burnden Park at the same time.

I think it was Bolton’s second team that were playing, and there were about 6,000 fans there. They were basically paying no attention to the game, and were just trying to find out what the score was at Wembley.

So they didn’t have radios or TV screens, they just had to find out what was happening through word of mouth?
It was word of mouth yes. Once the match had finished at Burnden Park, all those 6,000 fans just went onto the pitch, and were stood around waiting to find out what was happening. They were all looking up at the press box, as it was the press who would know what the score was first, whether through radio or by phone.

When it was announced in the press box that Bolton Wanderers had won, everyone just went mad. The Bolton Evening News had even written about a woman doing a crazy dance in the middle of the pitch! It was great for the town to celebrate their victory, and the team were classed as heroes when they returned to Bolton.

Did they have a parade like they do today?
Yes, when Bolton Wanderers travelled back on the Monday evening, they arrived at Moses Gate station where there were thousands of people there to greet them. Each time they won the competition in London, they had dinner at the Russell Hotel. Once they got back to Bolton they were driven to the town centre for a special reception at the town hall, and thousands of people were stood waiting for them to leave the hall in Victoria Square.

The players were then escorted from the town hall to the Pack Horse Hotel on Nelson Square, leaded by a brass band. Lots of people were lining the streets to catch a glimpse of them. Up until that point, apart from when crowds had gathered for the end of World War 1 celebrations, and when the armistice was signed, these crowds were the first to gather in Bolton for a sporting victory.

Were there ever any tensions at the actual game, or were people mainly in good spirits?
People were mainly in good spirits apart from some slight tension when rumours were spreading that West Ham had scored or that the game had been called off. I don’t think you could compare it to what happens today really.

On one of the listening posts where you can hear someone talking about what it was like to be there, he says that it was quite scary at times, but most people were good natured.

If you look at the photos in the exhibition you can see that some fans actually climbed up the side of the stadium, and then climbed down into the crowd. Burnden Park actually staged the FA Cup final in 1901, which became locally known as ‘pie Saturday’.

The ground had expected 50,000 to 60,000 fans, but as one team was from London and the other from Yorkshire, train fares proved too expensive and only 20,000 fans turned up. The caterers ended up giving out all the leftover pies for free. I’m sure lots of Boltonians went along too, and came back with very full stomachs!

Would there have been lots of police at the 1923 Cup final game at Wembley, and why is it called the ‘white horse’ final?
There would’ve been some police presence but not as many as there is today. When people descended upon the stadium in the final of 1923, there wasn’t enough police and they had to send in reinforcements. It the film footage, you can see a policeman on what looks like a white horse solely trying to control the crowds on pitch. The press seized upon this particular image, as the policeman was on his own, and he was named in the press as a heroic figure.

What do you think are the most memorable moments in the FA Cup and for Bolton in particular?
That would be really interesting to find out and that’s why we’ve put up a comments board so people can write their own memories; but I think for Bolton it would’ve been the 1923 FA Cup final, as it’s one of the most iconic moments in national football, not just locally.

Whenever there’s a programme on TV about the most memorable moments in British football history, that game always comes up. The interactives we have show some of the most famous finals that have taken place over the years. We also have a collection of programmes and press cuttings in the exhibition.

The club got to the final three times in the 1920s and twice in the 1950s,  and the last time Bolton Wanderers got to the cup final game was in 1958. They got to the semi final in 2000, but were beaten 1 - 0. We have a programme on display that relates to that semi final, and the rest of the material is souvenir documents produced from the Bolton Evening News,  reporting how Bolton fans made their way to London, and that their grandparents probably made the same journey in the 1950s, too.

What were people’s reactions to the closure of Burnden Park, Bolton Wanderers’ old ground, in 1997?
People were obviously very sad about the stadium closing as people tend to sit or stand in the same space for years. Some people think that the atmosphere isn’t the same as it was.

I’ve not spoken to people personally to see what they thought but it would be interesting to see what people write on the comments cards. I’m sure the replica model of the ground will jog people’s memories of going there.

How do you think the player profile has changed over the years, in terms of their age, fitness, where they come from and celebrity status?
I think there are more foreign players than there are British players now. For each final in the 1920s Bolton only used a total of seventeen players. Some of them were from Bolton, and some were from other areas of Britain. Their ages were similar to today, from around 16 or 17 to their late 30’s or early 40’s. When you look at the photo of the Bolton players in 1929, and compare them to how they look today, they look completely different.

They wouldn’t have been as fit as they are now, and they look a lot older.  A lot of these players would’ve fought in World War 1 before they became professional footballers. James Seddon actually had trench foot throughout his football career, which would have caused some problems.

Most of the players had ordinary jobs before they became footballers, such as working in the mills, pits and factories. They were hardworking men, and that’s probably what contributed to them looking older than they were. They would also have been paid very low wages, compared to the thousands of pounds footballers earn today.

If you’re not a Bolton Wanderers fan, and you were just curious about the FA cup, what is there to offer in that respect?
The exhibition is for football fans that support anyone, not just Bolton Wanderers. There are objects that relate to lots of different clubs, and we tell the story of the early days of the FA Cup in general. So if you are a football fan, and not a Bolton Wanderers fan, then you would get a lot out of it as it tells the story of the characters and teams that have helped to make the competition what it is.

And if you didn’t know much about football and the FA Cup; would you learn quite a lot from it as well?
People often wonder what all the fuss is about with football, but you come to this exhibition and get a sense of why it is so popular, what pulls people towards it and the drama that it creates. There are certain objects in the exhibition that are interesting, regardless of their football connection.

If you watch the footage of the 1923 cup final between Bolton and West Ham, and the way the crowd descend on the pitch, those scenes are really dramatic, even if you have no interest in football.

To have 200,000 people in one place under those circumstances is unprecedented, and is a really important event for that time.

And what about children, would they enjoy the exhibition, and is it a good introduction to the FA cup?
There are areas in the exhibition where you can touch the objects, and the atmosphere of the exhibition is very lively and exciting.

And finally, what do you hope to achieve from this exhibition?
I’m hoping to raise awareness of Bolton Wanderers’ achievements over the years, and to teach people about the history and prestige of the FA Cup. People will go away thinking ‘wow, I didn’t know that’.

Also, I hope people will come to the exhibition and realise that they may have something football or Bolton Wanderers related at home that they can donate to us. We could do with more materials relating to Bolton Wanderers and the players, so if people can donate something then that would be fantastic.